The big brand boxing match
- Added:
- Jul 28, 2005
The event was sponsored by the Nielson//Netratings latest report into the UK online sector.
Attending:
Dermot O'Mahony, Head of Portal Production, o2.co.uk
Lucy, Toptable, head of restaurant and brand relations, toptable.co.uk
David King, CEO, Fullsix London, fullsix.com
Erin Stafford, head of online sales, Viacom/MTV
Felipe Del Corral, VP Associate Creative Director, Modem Media, modemmedia.com
Tim Roe, director of data analytics, Nielsen//NetRatings EMEA
Andrew Thomas, E-Business Director, Bounty, Bounty.com
Ben Hogg, head of business development, Nielsen//NetRatings
Sarah Cherry, Digital media manager, Virginmusic.com
Howard Kiedaisch, CFO & President of Digital Cinema, Arts Alliance Media, artsalliancemedia.com
Gail While, marketing director, Modem Media
David Day, Nielsen//NetRatings, managing director EMEA
Alisa Bowen, head of Reuters.co.uk, Reuters Reuters European Online publishing business
Simon, Marketing director, Lovefilm.co.uk
(The following is, in most cases, a paraphrased transcript of the discussion, but where possible direct quotes are used. Please note: This has been slightly truncated, since the second wave of attempted London bombings last week interrupted the discussion).
Discussion:
Lisa - Virgin has some great sites are where the online community of users effectively takes over the brand, perhaps of an artist.
Andrew - New mums talk about their experiences on Bounty.com, but it's a very active community. In fact within 15 mins of the London bombs, the biggest furore was when someone said their mum was lost (but they weren't). The question is, do you really control your brand or is that being controlled for you, in a way you are aware of?
Lisa - It's also what what pressure are you under from brands to control the community of users. But the thing is, with a brand community site, most would kill for that kind of interaction.
Lucy - We have an interesting issue with feedback at Toptable.co.uk. We get the feedback - we have so much feedback, but also restaurants are our partners. To have a community where users talk to each other is great for us, but restaurants get worried about this. Restaurants are a topic for debate and customers can get into massive detail. At the end of every day, restaurants get feedback and some of it gets posted. Having a balanced view is important at the end of the day so that people feel they have been able to have their say.
Erin - MTV has always been liberal and open minded. But we don't want to ostracise sections of the community. Brands want to be on their sites but don't want to be associated with prejudiced messages.
Gail - Online has a huge effect on brand and we are seeing this coming through the CRM life-cycle in the US.
Lucy - BMWFilms.com had a great affect on BMW's brand.
Ben - BMW owners are highly allied to their brand so that site was well targeted at them.
Tim - The growth of the automotive sector is huge, and BMW has bought into online in a big way.
Erin - We're trying to get more car advertisers. 16-34 year olds are a massive car audience. There are so many different things to be done but many big car brands are not there. BMW does get it.
David - One brand that also gets it is our client Cilit Bang, a household cleaner. But it's almost being held to ransom online because of its popularity as abrand. Most people use it to reclaim showers. One person online took the TV ad and soundtrack and turned it into a hit. The site itself is ironic. But it's 2 pages away from Google's front page because of all the fan sites out there. The owners can't site on the fans, but the fans effectively own the brand on Google.
Simon - We have a DVD recommendation engine on LoveFilm. The ratings for DVDs is in itself a great data business now. The major film firms now watch it very closely for the marketing of their DVDs. The Interpreter was a film which was hyped by the studios but trashed by audiences online inside 5 mins. Now it’s about getting the theatre release right so you can market the DVD right.
Andrew. Who is the brand owner now? The oxygen of the web is putting power into the consumers hands.
Lisa - Brands only exist in the minds of the consumer. You can design around that but the consumer puts meaning into it.
Tim - Online communities can get hijacked by thought leaders. That's OK a DVD, but not so great for a car launch.
David - Almost by definition conversation online can get pushed to extremes, but that's why brands need to get involved. All demographic sections of the population are now online in the UK. So why is there such an imbalance in media spend between other media and online?
Lisa - The key strength of online is also its weakness. You don't have to justify a high street sign. You have to with online advertising.
Erin - Good creative is key.
Dermot - But the Net bombards us with advertising. Expecting interaction from banners is crazy. Communities is the key. Web users want to hear the good and bad about a brand and if you try to control that they won't respect you.
Gail - It's about dialogue.
Felipe - It's about evolving the approach. TV ads first sounded like radio ads, but realised they had to change. Same with online. And the dotcom bubble inflated expectations.
Erin - Brands are very comfortable with TV. I am constantly asked for case studies and research - they know they should spend online but they just don't know how or where. Clients still ask about "hits" on a site!
Dermot - There is a key issue here in that sales people in TV don’t mix enough with sales and media people in online.
David - Oil of Olay spends a lot online. They have 75,000 loyal people in an online club. P&G actively funnel people into this - and they spend on Olay.
Andrew - The block is often at media agencies not at brands as they are often not integrated across platforms. There is still only a smattering of knowledge out there.
Felipe - One of the big issues is that many client firms still don't understand the impact brands can have online - and what can happen to a brand online if they don’t attend to it. We have even put together a package called Digital 101 to educate them.
Gail - And clients often don't understand how cost effective online branding can be in ROI terms.
Andrew - That's why online is turning into a DM business since those guys can do above and below the line accounting. What is ROI on a billboard campaign? The Net has scale AND branding capabilities.
Erin - Ariel for instance has pointers to sports activities - that's where there's a huge role to be played.
Gail - The Persil site is very activity based - but can you get them to put a URL on a billboard ad?
Erin - At the opposite end, can you tell a Video Jockey on MTV to read out the web address instead of the email?
Andrew - There are very few press ads now without a URL.
Dermot - Then there's the possibilities of interactive TV coming through.
Lisa - Yes, but iTV is very expensive.
Attending:
Dermot O'Mahony, Head of Portal Production, o2.co.uk
Lucy, Toptable, head of restaurant and brand relations, toptable.co.uk
David King, CEO, Fullsix London, fullsix.com
Erin Stafford, head of online sales, Viacom/MTV
Felipe Del Corral, VP Associate Creative Director, Modem Media, modemmedia.com
Tim Roe, director of data analytics, Nielsen//NetRatings EMEA
Andrew Thomas, E-Business Director, Bounty, Bounty.com
Ben Hogg, head of business development, Nielsen//NetRatings
Sarah Cherry, Digital media manager, Virginmusic.com
Howard Kiedaisch, CFO & President of Digital Cinema, Arts Alliance Media, artsalliancemedia.com
Gail While, marketing director, Modem Media
David Day, Nielsen//NetRatings, managing director EMEA
Alisa Bowen, head of Reuters.co.uk, Reuters Reuters European Online publishing business
Simon, Marketing director, Lovefilm.co.uk
(The following is, in most cases, a paraphrased transcript of the discussion, but where possible direct quotes are used. Please note: This has been slightly truncated, since the second wave of attempted London bombings last week interrupted the discussion).
Discussion:
Lisa - Virgin has some great sites are where the online community of users effectively takes over the brand, perhaps of an artist.
Andrew - New mums talk about their experiences on Bounty.com, but it's a very active community. In fact within 15 mins of the London bombs, the biggest furore was when someone said their mum was lost (but they weren't). The question is, do you really control your brand or is that being controlled for you, in a way you are aware of?
Lisa - It's also what what pressure are you under from brands to control the community of users. But the thing is, with a brand community site, most would kill for that kind of interaction.
Lucy - We have an interesting issue with feedback at Toptable.co.uk. We get the feedback - we have so much feedback, but also restaurants are our partners. To have a community where users talk to each other is great for us, but restaurants get worried about this. Restaurants are a topic for debate and customers can get into massive detail. At the end of every day, restaurants get feedback and some of it gets posted. Having a balanced view is important at the end of the day so that people feel they have been able to have their say.
Erin - MTV has always been liberal and open minded. But we don't want to ostracise sections of the community. Brands want to be on their sites but don't want to be associated with prejudiced messages.
Gail - Online has a huge effect on brand and we are seeing this coming through the CRM life-cycle in the US.
Lucy - BMWFilms.com had a great affect on BMW's brand.
Ben - BMW owners are highly allied to their brand so that site was well targeted at them.
Tim - The growth of the automotive sector is huge, and BMW has bought into online in a big way.
Erin - We're trying to get more car advertisers. 16-34 year olds are a massive car audience. There are so many different things to be done but many big car brands are not there. BMW does get it.
David - One brand that also gets it is our client Cilit Bang, a household cleaner. But it's almost being held to ransom online because of its popularity as abrand. Most people use it to reclaim showers. One person online took the TV ad and soundtrack and turned it into a hit. The site itself is ironic. But it's 2 pages away from Google's front page because of all the fan sites out there. The owners can't site on the fans, but the fans effectively own the brand on Google.
Simon - We have a DVD recommendation engine on LoveFilm. The ratings for DVDs is in itself a great data business now. The major film firms now watch it very closely for the marketing of their DVDs. The Interpreter was a film which was hyped by the studios but trashed by audiences online inside 5 mins. Now it’s about getting the theatre release right so you can market the DVD right.
Andrew. Who is the brand owner now? The oxygen of the web is putting power into the consumers hands.
Lisa - Brands only exist in the minds of the consumer. You can design around that but the consumer puts meaning into it.
Tim - Online communities can get hijacked by thought leaders. That's OK a DVD, but not so great for a car launch.
David - Almost by definition conversation online can get pushed to extremes, but that's why brands need to get involved. All demographic sections of the population are now online in the UK. So why is there such an imbalance in media spend between other media and online?
Lisa - The key strength of online is also its weakness. You don't have to justify a high street sign. You have to with online advertising.
Erin - Good creative is key.
Dermot - But the Net bombards us with advertising. Expecting interaction from banners is crazy. Communities is the key. Web users want to hear the good and bad about a brand and if you try to control that they won't respect you.
Gail - It's about dialogue.
Felipe - It's about evolving the approach. TV ads first sounded like radio ads, but realised they had to change. Same with online. And the dotcom bubble inflated expectations.
Erin - Brands are very comfortable with TV. I am constantly asked for case studies and research - they know they should spend online but they just don't know how or where. Clients still ask about "hits" on a site!
Dermot - There is a key issue here in that sales people in TV don’t mix enough with sales and media people in online.
David - Oil of Olay spends a lot online. They have 75,000 loyal people in an online club. P&G actively funnel people into this - and they spend on Olay.
Andrew - The block is often at media agencies not at brands as they are often not integrated across platforms. There is still only a smattering of knowledge out there.
Felipe - One of the big issues is that many client firms still don't understand the impact brands can have online - and what can happen to a brand online if they don’t attend to it. We have even put together a package called Digital 101 to educate them.
Gail - And clients often don't understand how cost effective online branding can be in ROI terms.
Andrew - That's why online is turning into a DM business since those guys can do above and below the line accounting. What is ROI on a billboard campaign? The Net has scale AND branding capabilities.
Erin - Ariel for instance has pointers to sports activities - that's where there's a huge role to be played.
Gail - The Persil site is very activity based - but can you get them to put a URL on a billboard ad?
Erin - At the opposite end, can you tell a Video Jockey on MTV to read out the web address instead of the email?
Andrew - There are very few press ads now without a URL.
Dermot - Then there's the possibilities of interactive TV coming through.
Lisa - Yes, but iTV is very expensive.